Peach, apple, berry, key lime

At the moment, there is a page on the !Echo/!Atom Wiki for NameFinalVote, which at the moment says voting closes August 15th, and at the moment features choices ranging from Barbwire (someone will immediately create an icon featuring Pamela Anderson’s implants in black leather, and I will use it) to Wyre (interview a random sample of teenagers named Tyfanny, Apryl, Mykynzy, and the like; ask them if it make them feel “unique” or just “stupid”).

I. Like. Pie.


Comment by Sam Ruby #
2003-08-03 07:21:20

Phil – it seems to me that you have an opinion, the knowledge of where this opinion is being captured, and both the means and opportunity to express that opinion. I’m curious as to what is holding you back? Is it the set of rules that ’they’ have put in place?

Comment by Phil Ringnalda #
2003-08-03 10:52:02

Mostly, yes: it’s the ”here are the only seven possible names, there was ample time to suggest others, and we’ve done a ton of work to be sure that these are the only possible names already, now pick one” tone of the vote page.

But it’s also the lack of archives: if (Ghu forbid) it had been done on a mailing list rather than a wiki, I would know that there had to have been at least one discussion where Pie got thrown out, and could look back to see the complete history, and if it had been casually tossed out before the difficulties of finding a workable name were really clear, I could say ”why not reconsider Pie, now that we know we can’t just pick anything we want?” As it is, I have to assume there’s some good reason (surely they didn’t just throw your name out for no reason at all, did they?), but even if there is a WhyYouCantHavePie page, I can’t assume that it actually tells the whole story, just the story that the last few people to edit it wanted told.

I like compromise, where someone clearly gives up something they want in order to get forward progress, with the feeling that maybe next time their ox won’t be the one to get gored. I don’t think I like consensus, where everyone silently joins the faceless crowd just because it is a crowd.

Comment by billsaysthis #
2003-08-03 13:56:36

There is/was a mailing list. Though I am unable to give a URI.

Comment by Phil Ringnalda #
2003-08-03 14:42:18 is probably what you mean, but it’s not a complete history of the project, any more than Danny’s archives are. Useful adjuncts, to be sure, but not a history.

Comment by Sam Ruby #
2003-08-03 19:13:32



– – – –

FYI: I truly was asking as I wanted insight as to your thought process. You provided that. Thanks!

Comment by Phil Ringnalda #
2003-08-03 20:24:52

Betcha. I was pretty sure you were asking ”why not?” rather than saying ”you should.”

Interesting but probably legally insignificant: (the trademark holder) redirects to, which is actually using PiiE (for which they have an abandoned trademark application), not Pie.

Interesting and I wonder about the significance: the mark is actually Pi[stylized e with the upper right corner formed by a cut out pie shape].

Also interesting: it’s an ”intent to use” mark, rather than one used in commerce, which from a very brief look around seems to mean that they have six months from 2002-11-26 (the date of Notice of Allowance) to file an Statement Of Use. Since it’s now more than six months, assuming they haven’t filed and the USPTO site just doesn’t mention it, the application should be declared abandoned.

Also, is an actual trademark lawyer giving trademark advice, or are people applying their common sense interpretations to the law? My experience has been that since the law is what lawyers (both as lawyers and as judges) say it is, common sense applied to isolated facts has almost no value.

Comment by Phil Ringnalda #
2003-08-04 00:08:26

And if I was using bBlog instead of just pondering it, I would have been able to TrackBack my own comment from my Is there a trademark lawyer in the house? entry, followed quickly by disappearing up my own, ah, navel.

Comment by KafkaesquĆ­ #
2003-08-03 09:31:35

I see my suggestion of ”Blecho” didn’t make it to the final candidates. No imagination…

Comment by Phil Ringnalda #
2003-08-03 10:55:41

For no good reason, it makes me think of Steven Bochco. I liked Hill Street Blues. A lot.

Comment by Shelley #
2003-08-03 20:03:27

I didn’t like Pie, but I like the current herd of names even less. I thought about pushing for Pubs, but this seems to be filtered out as a violation because there were too many Google hits for it. Or something.

Should have called it AntiWiki…

Comment by David #
2003-08-04 06:45:45

Pie. Echo. Atom.

PEA? Oops. No acronyms.

Um.. I thought they all were acronyms. ”Pie Is Easy,” ”Extending Content for HOmepages,” and ”Another Try On naMing it.”

Argh. I wish Sam would have just named it, as the father of the concept, if not everything else, and been done with it. We’re finally getting past the name thing, it seems, and onto some actual useful stuff, but the silly vote on a name thing is getting old to me.

Comment by Danny #
2003-08-04 09:00:20

Did someone say ahistorical?

26 2003-07-23 11:47:01 58310 added ”Pea” : Pie, Echo, Atom

Trackback by Don't Back Down #
2003-08-03 04:17:08

What’s that Name Again?

Seems like the world is afire with discussion about the NameFinalVote page at the wiki for NAPE (Not Atom, Pie or Echo). Strangely, only 14 votes have been cast at this point. Not really overwhelming, is it? The current leader is Feedcast, which to me …

Trackback by homoLudens #
2003-08-03 20:35:18

Why some, though willing, won’t wiki

”There’s an interesting thread on Phil Ringnalda’s blog today regarding the naming process for the !(echo/atom/pie) syndication format project…

Trackback by Burningbird #
2003-08-03 20:51:57


Liz wrote a great note on the recent and growing pushback against the use of the Wiki for Pie/Echo/Atom, based in part on a discussion at Phil’s and a posting over at Sam’s. Liz’s summary hits all the points: I’m not yet at the point where I see wikis …

Trackback by Show Me The Code 2.0 #
2003-08-03 22:12:18

Will an echo by an other name sound the same.

With out a Benevaloent Dictator, or some other Alpha, the herd will not stand still.

Trackback by tima thinking outloud. #
2003-08-04 00:36:49

Wikis Suck.

Well at least large scale active ones do. I will add my lessor known name to the list of people who were put off by the use of a wiki and have disengaged from participating in the ”!(echo/atom/pie)” project discussion.

Trackback by Raw Blog #
2003-08-04 08:46:06

Wiki talk

Lots of talk about the problems with Wikis. Amongst Liz’s many good points, I think a few miss the mark….

Trackback by Many-to-Many #
2004-01-19 09:47:43

Wiki Backlash?

There’s an interesting thread on Phil Ringnalda’s blog today regarding the naming process for the !(echo/atom/pie) syndication format project. Sam Ruby, who maintains the wiki for the project, asks in the comments why Phil feels unable or u…

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